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FB3 - Week 1 - Discussion


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There’s nothing like a good story, but what makes a story good are the characters playing their parts. Throughout the first two movies and now in the third, we’re introduced to quite a menagerie of characters that became near and dear to our hearts.

 

Two characters that have had quite a journey already are undoubtedly Credence Barebone and Queenie Goldstein. Credence went from an orphan troubled by his destructive untapped magic to a person with a (supposedly) close connection to Albus Dumbledore. While Queenie made a journey from a low-level Ministry employee gifted with Legilimency to joining Gellert Grindelwald.

 

What do you think about their character arcs? Did you expect them to go as they did or were you surprised as you watched the movies and the trailers? Is there anything that you would’ve changed?

 

You can also touch upon how the characters relate to each other. Is there a bond between two or more characters that you feel particularly attached to? I know I just love the friendship between Newt and Jacob! What is it that makes you like the characters’ bond?

 

Write a post with at least 100 words and earn 15 Diamonds!  If you write another one of at least another 100 words, you can earn additional 15 Diamonds, too.

Note:  Please, do not post twice in a row in a short time!  Wait for someone else to post, or 24 hours, before posting again.

 

You have until May 14th, 11:59 pm HOL time to earn your Diamonds. If you respond within a week of this being posted, though, you earn an additional 3 bonus Diamonds.

 

Please, be mindful of the spoilers for the latest movie (trailers’ spoilers are allowed)! Not everyone has the ability to see the movie the moment it came out. Please, mark them appropriately or don't use them at all. Thank you!

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I have not watched the movie yet and so I cannot tell you much about the current portrayal of the main characters. However, I can tell that I have not expected Queenie to join Gellert Grindelwald. I have always loved Queenie and I did not expect her to turn to evil. This information has truly shocked me but I can understand that as she was heartbroken and terrified of what is going to happen next. She ventured into the unknown and so I truly feel sorry for her. Despite everything, I still really like Queenie and I am happy we got a different side to him.

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I have also not watched the movie yet simply because I have been so busy with studying and then other aspects of everyday responsibilities came around and so I found myself with no time to do anything. I also liked Queenie but she did seem a bit annoying to me. I did not like how unstable she was, and despite her being rather 'strong' in the first movie, I could see her change and become weaker with every movie. Therefore, it was not as a big surprise to me that she decided to turn to evil and to Gellert himself.

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8 minutes ago, Louis Walles said:

I have also not watched the movie yet simply because I have been so busy with studying and then other aspects of everyday responsibilities came around and so I found myself with no time to do anything. I also liked Queenie but she did seem a bit annoying to me. I did not like how unstable she was, and despite her being rather 'strong' in the first movie, I could see her change and become weaker with every movie. Therefore, it was not as a big surprise to me that she decided to turn to evil and to Gellert himself.

Hm that is interesting. She has never seen unstable to me! Maybe I was just ignoring a few details about her life or her behaviours without even realising it? In my eyes she was always one of the kindest witches ever, and someone you can trust no matter what. I am only surprised with one aspect. I mean we know that Queenie can read minds, so how did she join Gellert? Could not she read from his mind that he is not a good person and will not treat her fairly? I honestly do not understand this part but would love to know why.

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50 minutes ago, Harry Walles said:

I have not watched the movie yet and so I cannot tell you much about the current portrayal of the main characters. However, I can tell that I have not expected Queenie to join Gellert Grindelwald. I have always loved Queenie and I did not expect her to turn to evil. This information has truly shocked me but I can understand that as she was heartbroken and terrified of what is going to happen next. She ventured into the unknown and so I truly feel sorry for her. Despite everything, I still really like Queenie and I am happy we got a different side to him.

I have to admit I was not even a bit surprised about her turning to evil. As I said she did seem to be rather unstable and so when she was faced with plenty of problems at once, she got lost and she did not know what to do next. Gellert is a great manipulator and so I do believe Queenie could easily fall into the trap since she was in the most complicated and hurtful part of her live we had the opportunity to witness ourselves. I think it is extremely easy to believe in what Gellert was saying.

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I have not seen any of the Fantastic Beasts movies besides the first one, so there are some characters who I do not recognize, like Yusuf Kama or Liu Tao (from the word search), but I was shocked to hear that Queenie turned to Gellert's side! Also I am relieved, albeit not that surprised, that Credence has become somewhat close with Albus Dumbledore. But I love that there are (series of) movies that showcase the time of Gellert's reign of terror and the moments that built up to it, too. I feel these movies also would show an interesting side to Albus, one we have not seen before.

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I haven't seen the film yet, either, simply because I live in the United States and it did not premiere until today. That being said, I'm seeing it tomorrow, and I honestly am equally apprehensive and excited to see it. Crimes of Grindelwald left me with mixed emotions, but the largest one is complete confusion by Queenie's decision to join Grindelwald. That was absolutely the last thing I expected from her. I think there is a part of me that can understand her desire to just be able to be herself and be free to marry who she wants (ie. Jacob) , but I still never thought she would abandon her sister like that. I'm going into the film with an open mind and a hopeful feeling, but there is a large part of me that just hopes they fixed what (I feel) they messed up in the previous film.

 

I can say, though, that I've seen a lot of people saying "there's absolutely no way that Creedence is some long-lost Dumbeldore brother!" like he was told by Grindelwald, and while I agree with this - we have a fairly well-known layout of the Dumbledore family's childhood and such - that doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be related to the Dumbeldores in some way; from what I've seen, Grindelwald doesn't necessarily outright lie, so much as twist and manipulate the truth to his own advantage. I think that's one of the most dangerous things about him. He knows exactly how to manipulate people to do his own bidding. 

 

Speaking of Grindelwald's manipulations, this just brings me back to the idea of Queenie joining him. The more I think about it (while writing this out) the more I can see how he managed to convince her to join him. The man is extremely manipulative, but he's also incredibly charming and charismatic. He knows what he wants, and he knows exactly how he can achieve it. Grindelwald knows that with someone like Queenie on his side, someone who is equally charming as well as a powerful Legilimens, he can get much further in his plans than without her.

 

As for her legilimency and using that to see through Grindelwald's plans to his ultimate goal (one she would never support), I have no doubts that Gellert Grindelwald is a very gifted Occlumens. We saw Voldemort try and fail to penetrate Grindelwald's mind when he was in Nurmengard in 1998, and that was 53 years later; you can only imagine how much stronger he was when he was younger and in his prime. So when others ask how Queenie didn't see Gellert's true intentions, my best guess is that he is protecting his mind from her with occlumency. Combining his status as an Occlumens with his manipulations and charisma, it's honestly a bit surprising that he didn't have even more followers than he did.

 

With all of that said, I'm more excited than anxious about Secrets of Dumbledore, and I am just counting down the hours and minutes until I see the film. It's 20 hours, 39 minutes, and 20 seconds as of right now. >.>

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I haven't seen the latest movie yet - and I probably won't see it in a theater so it might be a while before I have the chance (that said I really don't mind being spoiled as I'd rather have the information to use as I see fit!)

 

In any event, I can understand why Queenie Goldstein switched to "the side of evil":  she was living in a discriminatory society that did not allow her to marry - or even have any sort of social contact with - the man she loved.  When paired with rejection by that man (even if that rejection was done in order to keep her safe), it makes sense that she could be easily persuaded by a leader who made promises to allow such relationships in the future!  Love is a powerful force in this universe, and the prospect of being actually allowed to express your true love freely can allow you to explain away a lot.  I think that Grindelwald told Queenie what she wanted to hear and painted his vision in the best light possible (to Queenie's ears) and that would likely have been more than enough!

----------------------------------------

WARNING to future participants of this activity:  While trying to refresh my memory on how Queenie Goldstein acted in the first two Fantastic Beasts movies, I consulted the Harry Potter Wiki page on Queenie Goldstein.  When I scrolled down to see the part about her joining Grindelwald towards the end of the second movie, I was immediately confronted with spoilers for the third movie... without spoiler warnings or any other indications that this information was only from The Secrets of Dumbledore (until I clicked on a numbered footnote).

Therefore, you should be very careful with the Harry Potter Wiki if you wish to avoid spoilers!

Edited by Prof. Will Lestrange
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I've not seen the third movie yet.

 

I'm sort of surprised at all the mentions of Queenie, in part because that is of whom I wanted to talk! 

 

PS - Thank you, Will, for the note about spoilers in the Wiki pages!  I will avoid them. :o

 

Anyway, back to Queenie. It's really difficult having a gift of legilimency, or so I imagine.  Hearing what everyone is 'thinking' or saying in their own heads? Eeeuuuu.  Where's the mute button!  Yet, at the same time, I think this is something which she got used to, and thought she had it very much under control. What would happen when she met a person who is able to control his thoughts to such an extent that he could 'think' things which are not true, and have them appear as true. Or, worse perhaps, someone who lied to himself and believed his own lies.  How would she know the difference between the thinking of a sane mind and that of an insane mind?  When would she have taught herself discernment, that she can tell the difference?

 

I always thought her a very strong character and still do. I think when she gets over being brain-washed (mind-washed) that Queenie will be a vital part of whatever downfall Grindelwald experiences.

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Unlike the others that have posted, I have seen the movie! There were definitely some shocking twists that I did not expect to happen (I try to stay away from any kind of spoilers, as to see it from a fresh mind, plus the Sett is having issues with posting with spoilers right now). It was very difficult reading your posts knowing that I had seen the latest movie, and couldn't respond to your posts without giving away anything. While deciding what to post for this, without having my entire post be all spoilers, I decided to focus on what I love about the series! I love the bond between Jacob and Newt, Jacob and Queenie and Newt and Tina, and we get to see more of them in this installment. We get to meet some new creatures, and there were several new ones that I loved in addition to my favorites from the previous two installments, the Bowtruckle and the Niffler. When I first found out that the movie was releasing a day earlier in my area, I got right on and reserved seats for my family and I to see it! They even have luxury recliner seats in my local theatre now, so we got to see it with all the relaxation of home! This was such a good first movie to see back in theatres (as the last movie I had seen in theatres was in December of 2019). When the movie was over, people in the theatre applauded! Highly recommend this movie to EVERYONE. IT WAS SO GOOD!!!!!

 

P.S. TARMA, watch this movie, so I can talk to you about this!

P.S.S. Tomorrow, I finally get to see The Cursed Child perform after a two year delay!!!!! 

 

 

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I unfortunately do not know when I will be able to watch the movie, or even the 2nd one, I do not have much free time! Plus I do not like movie theaters haha, I'd wait until they are available online or in DVD form. Though I am really glad to hear that we will see new creatures! I have such a love and passion for animals and creatures of all kinds so that has me excited. I wonder if there will be a fourth movie, though? I never really expected a second or third, honestly, but a fourth would be interesting I bet!

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I've seen the movie now, and I will definitely refrain from posting any sort of spoilers, but I can say I did enjoy it immensely. I think my biggest hangup with Queenie switching to Grindelwald's side just because he could offer her marriage to a no-maj was the fact that some of the regulations were a bit unclear. My main thought was "if the MACUSA won't let you marry in America, why can't you move somewhere that will allow you to do so?" Now, I definitely understand the idea of moving somewhere else entirely just to marry someone seems ridiculous, especially when your own family is somewhere else (with Tina being in the States), but at the same time she's a member of the Wizarding community! The Floo Network existed, so she could have easily gone to visit Tina (and Newt because it's no spoiler they end up together; that was established in either the HP novels themselves or in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them (the novel), I just don't remember which) via Floo Powder. 

 

So, again, I raise my point of if the two of them want to marry so badly, why couldn't they have considered the idea of relocating to the UK where it's not illegal to marry a Muggle? Newt himself calls the Anti-Muggle laws 'backwards laws', and we have half-bloods and muggleborns witches and wizards that exist, so it stands to reason that it's not quite as frowned upon over there. 

 

That also brings up the question of what happened with the Muggleborn children in America? Surely there were some Muggle families where a magical child was born; after all, I think this is partially where we get Obscurials from. Were all of them forced to suppress their magic? Like...I don't understand why Queenie had to join Grindelwald just to be able to marry Jacob when she knew that joining him would surely cause a serious strain on their relationship, and I really don't understand why Americans were quite so Anti-Muggle; they can't even quote the Salem Witch Trials as the reason because the witch trials were a worldwide problem. Yes, it's important to keep the knowledge of the Wizarding Community a secret, but that doesn't mean some No-Majs/Muggles couldn't have been trusted.

 

I think the Anti-Muggle Association laws were what stressed me out the most lol.

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Also, as a secondary thought, I really wish that I had seen Will's warning myself earlier! I had gone onto the Harry Potter wikipedia to look at something about Creedence, and I saw all the spoilers from the third movie involving him, and it definitely was a shock. I hate the fact that they add in spoilers quite this early without any such warnings. 

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I haven't seen the new movie either. That was my plan during our spring break, but this illness has got the best of me.. so the couch is my spring break.

 

But from the first and second movies, I have always loved the bond between Jacob and Newt. Each on their own they feel like outcasts in society. Newt because the rest of the wizarding world doesn't understand his love for his creatures and Jacob because of not fitting in at the cannery and his failed attempt to open his bakery. Though they met under strange circumstances (exchanging briefcases) and Jacob thrown into a whole new world, they took right to each other, accepting  each other for who they are and their belief of what is right.

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13 hours ago, Prof. Felicia Hartwick said:

I haven't seen the new movie either. That was my plan during our spring break, but this illness has got the best of me.. so the couch is my spring break.

 

But from the first and second movies, I have always loved the bond between Jacob and Newt. Each on their own they feel like outcasts in society. Newt because the rest of the wizarding world doesn't understand his love for his creatures and Jacob because of not fitting in at the cannery and his failed attempt to open his bakery. Though they met under strange circumstances (exchanging briefcases) and Jacob thrown into a whole new world, they took right to each other, accepting  each other for who they are and their belief of what is right.

Fels, and others, have mentioned this close bond between Newt and Jacob, which developed in the first movie, and deepened in the second one.  Yes, while I do wonder about Queenie and how her story will come along, it's a very true thing that much of the strength of the whole story line has, as its core, this unlikely, improbably and very wonderful relationship between a wizard and a No-Maj.  I do love Jacob. Yes.  Of course I love Newt .... hey, interesting creatures and Hufflepuff and he's totally wonderful. But look at this Muggle, who somehow is pulled into a world completely new and unfamiliar (and impossible?) to him and he's absolutely great. Wow.   :wub:

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  • 3 weeks later...

I love the friendship between Newt and Jacob, especially for that time!  They have a great friendship and it shows that a wizard can be friends with a muggle.  I think Jacob's character is funny and I love Newt's character, his awkwardness and the quirky things he does throughout all 3 movies that make him different from all the other characters.  I understand why Grindelwald would want Queenie as part of his followers because of her legilimency, but I do wish she would have turned him down in the second one and not become a follower because she was supposed to be good.  I didn't like how she left Jacob to go to Grindelwald.  But then again if she did turn him down, he probably would have killed her anyway.  So if i look at it like that, in a way, maybe it was actually a good thing she turned to his side.  No spoilers for the third movie, but it was a great movie and showed more of the characters personalities.  

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